Just as I may ask my mother to pray for me, or my wife to pray for me, I may also ask Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, or my own guardian angel to pray for me. This post is so wonderful, so important, so true! ); I find it difficult to accept the idea that we pray to the saints in the same way we pray to God. He stressed that we can see the Father’s love outpoured in the living sacrifice we receive in the body and blood of His Son. Hope you can check out some of the info on my blog when you can. If angels can get close enough for you to entertain them, then they can also get close enough to hear you pray. If you desire to be fit for heaven, you must live the Orthodox life. 8 “Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp, sweep the house, and search carefully until she finds it? They knew what was happening on earth. Comments that go along the lines of, “we often pay too much attention to the NT and neglect the OT” cause me to wonder by what hermeneutic are we to proceed? . They are alive in the presence of God, and they pray for us. But while modern science is beginning to discover the possibilities of multiples dimensions at places like CERN, Bible scholars like Douglas Hamp are rediscovering what the Bible teaches about heaven to be a place just beyond the veil of our three dimensional world. The 'Brazen Alter' represents the Earth where the sacrifice was to be made. Fire… yes… What is it burning against? – what is the ground and grammar of our theological method? * I accept the teaching that the saints are not dead but alive in Heaven and we ask for their intercessions. The Places Where the Veil Between Heaven and Earth is a Little Thinner Catherine Jackson Blog Posts christian , faith , god's creation , worship 1 Comment Earlier this year, two of my best friends and I took a spontaneous drive to Camp Greystone in North Carolina. The new Adam who was born-again from the old Adam? It is not enough to have Orthodox beliefs. The "Sea" under discussion is a barrier between the second and third heavens, represented by the veil between the 'Holy Place' and 'Holiest of All.' And he said, “Your servant did not go anywhere.” Even today, there is no telling how often you are given the opportunity to entertain angels without even knowing it: “Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.” (Hebrews 13:2). The book of Revelation observes that various beings in heaven “fell down before the Lamb,” each of them having “golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints” (Rev. Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. 22 And he said, “All is well. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Thank you for this blog! We cannot look through it to see heaven. It is a place for practicing the presence of God, reflecting on Scripture, and for conducting experiments with truth.. The word “pray” simply means “ask”. God, prayer and intercession of the Angels and Saints- so inspiring, so true! Veils in general have many functions. For me the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina--a place I have gone with extended family nearly every summer of my life--is one such thin place. Isn’t he the thermo-nuclear suit of humanity? Really? The ‘Heavenly Man,’ Jesus Christ, displayed heaven on earth and revealed the kingdom of heaven everywhere He walked on earth. Nevertheless, for the sake of witnessing to Protestants, I think it is fine to just focus on “asking saints to pray for us”. Pingback: Oxymorons, Necromancy, and Prayers to Saints | The Orthodox Life, Pingback: Intercession of the Saints | Living a Liturgical Life. Ok, I just remembered (I’m free styling here) that Jesus Christ is described as having fiery attributes in Revelation. Doug Hamp’s a dude. Luke gives us additional detail, informing us that “He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him” (Luke 20:38). First off I must say that corrupting the seed lecture helped me move forward with many things that I was already finding in the word about what is coming in the future for humanity and for the christians. The Veil Between Heaven and Earth on Canary Cry Radio (Audio) June 4, 2013 in Audio, End Times Audio, ... Bible scholars like Douglas Hamp are rediscovering what the Bible teaches about heaven to be a place just beyond the veil of our three dimensional world. The earth was split, the veil in the temple was rent from top to bottom, and the precious body of Jesus was broken in order that heaven might invade the earth. If we concur with the Nicene Creed that Jesus Christ is “homousios to patri” – of the same being as the Father, then fire is an inadequate description of the nature and or character of God. The second coming is when the veil comes down and then all humanity can see Jesus coming! I had never considered this concept before. ( Log Out /  . Deut 11:17 And then the LORD’s wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit 25 Now he went in and stood before his master. In order to bridge this difficult divide, it was explained to me that that we don’t actually pray to saints and angels, we merely ask them to pray [to God] for us, as a prayer is by definition addressed to God. Just another example of “how did I miss that?” Thick clouds are a veil for him, so he does not see us, as he goes back and forth in the vault of heaven.' If God grants such abilities to men who are still living on earth, then it is not surprising that God grants similar abilities to Christians in heaven, so that they are able to see events and hear prayers which take place on earth. You can find me at http://reedshakinginthewind.blogspot.com.br (that is the website for my blog). *Prayer being an invocation or act that seeks to activate a rapport with a deity or object of worship through deliberate communication; that is, a direct petition to God. 20 Bless the Lord, you His angels, who excel in strength, who do His word, heeding the voice of His word. Is there any particular Scriptural command you think you would be breaking? The only Son of the Father – the exclusive son – who stooped to include us in his communion with his Father in the fellowship of the Holy Spirit. That the Lord can remove corruption and deception from breaking you down, and that his peace can rest upon you always. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. In our conversation, Doug brings to light the many descriptive matters in the Bible like fire and the veil that have become “theologized” by modern day Christian institutions. The first time the word shows up, it is Abraham praying to Sarah. ( Log Out /  The book of Hebrews talks about entering “the Presence behind the veil” (9). If any angel is going to be consistently nearby, it is your guardian angel. Maybe I’m wrong on this, but I think it’s better to be a little more conservative in our approach the spiritual world. Russian Bibles Are Totally Different from American Ones. Change ). 15 And when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with horses and chariots. So these points of in-between, both on the Earth, and found in time, are places where the veil is naturally thin, offering a boost in glimpsing beyond The Veil … Maybe I’m missing something in Mr Hamp’s discussion. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ . Surely his entrance into heaven did not make him less able to help us. Once they did that, the veil of scripture would be removed and the hidden meanings of the entire Bible would be opened to them. . But they don’t keep our prayers locked up in those vials forever. According to Jesus, that boy’s prayer is broadcast in heaven, and all the inhabitants of heaven rejoice. In tears of conviction, he falls to his knees before God, and he pours out his heart in a prayer of repentance. What am I struggling to say?? ( Log Out /  What shall we do?” However, Scripture does record numerous pieces of data which suggest that: The inhabitants of heaven know what is happening on earth. then we should pray to saints and angels. There are several Bible verses about Heaven that talk about Christ bringing Heaven down to earth. They pray to God about it. A fifteen-year-old boy drives his pickup truck to a farmer’s field on the outskirts of town. Im always leary of the Jew for Jesus crowd as most of the time they leave out the Jesus part. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. CAN MY HUSBAND SEE AND HEAR ME NOW THAT HE IS PRESENT WITH THE LORD? In the Old Testament, centuries after the prophet Jeremiah died and went to paradise, he continued praying for God’s people: 2 Maccabees 15: Heaven, if you will, broke through the barrier and came to be present on earth. But I believe praying and asking are two different concepts (otherwise why two different words? All I know is that Scripture says it can be done. 26 Then he said to him, “Did not my heart go with you when the man turned back from his chariot to meet you? Is it time to receive money and to receive clothing, olive groves and vineyards, sheep and oxen, male and female servants? 21 So Gehazi pursued Naaman. WHY WAS THE TEMPLE’S VEIL RENT WHEN CHRIST DIED? 16 So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” We risk placing God-created beings (saints, angels) as equal to God, which is idolatry. There is only a thin veil between heaven and earth; I can communicate with all who abide in the Mystical Body of Christ simply because I am a member of the communion of saints. Here’s Why . 4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? Recommended to you based on your activity and what's popular • Feedback Think of phrases like “pray tell” and “I pray thee” in Shakespeare, Jane Austen, etc. In reference to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Jesus said that God “is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living” (Matthew 22:32; Mark 12:27). The huge veil which hung between the two "holy places", with its beautiful artwork of angels, represented the separation betweeen "earth" and "heaven". But she panicked in those final seconds before … Sure we have scriptural evidence to support that conclusion but what does Jesus say about God? He walks into the middle of that field, and he is all alone. We are told about the thin veil between heaven and earth, and scripture bears witness to the possibility of movement from one to the other. As a result of being “in-between”, in a liminal space, peering through The Veil, which is the “in-between” of Spirit and Physical also becomes easier. 9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 9 And when she has found it, she calls her friends and neighbors together, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the piece which I lost!’ The gospels continually reveal His world breaking into our world. The Bible talks about a ‘veil’ that separates heaven and earth. I reckon Hamp’s discussion on the veil linked in well with Deyo’s past contribution to the notion of different levels of energy between the dimensions. https://media.blubrry.com/canarycryradio/p/content.blubrry.com/canarycryradio/CCR048.mp3, http://reedshakinginthewind.blogspot.com.br. New Heart English Bible Thick clouds are a covering to him, so that he doesn't see. Where Thin Places Are is a record, a remembering, and a returning to God. Could it be anything that attempts to subvert or conceal or eclipse the glorious revelation of our adoption as sons and daughters in Christ? The Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Terrified of going under, she had been assured there was no reason for concern. However, I do not know whether God gives this ability to all people in heaven at all times, or only in certain circumstances. Thus, in truth, prayer to saints is not “prayer to the dead”. They ultimately offer our prayers directly to the Lord Himself: And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel. The first heaven is the earth’s atmosphere; the immediate sky. My master has sent me, saying, ‘Indeed, just now two young men of the sons of the prophets have come to me from the mountains of Ephraim. So they prayed for God to take care of it. In fact, in Jesus, the barrier between heaven and earth wasn’t just thin, it was completely non-existent. 5:8). My nagging concern with many topics is the very real potential for people to skip over the mystery of our adoption and confuse ideas such a fire with legal abstractions of holiness rather than the glorious, beautiful wonder of holiness that is condensed in the communion of the trinity and extended to us. Christ? We often think of heaven as some ethereal place far far away. Yet he is not a fire. With outstretched arms Onias was praying for the entire Jewish nation. 8:4). As I was listening, and this occurs on the regular with most Christian podcasts, (by most I mean the 6 or 7 I subscribe to) I felt that an adequate Christological perspective was somewhat absent from the guests material. The actual revelation which has been made to us is of God in His relation to the soul of man. What do the angels do with our prayers, after they receive them? This veil is a symbol of the division between heaven and earth, between time and eternity, or between the sacred and the commonplace. . Think about the practical implications. WHAT IS THE VEIL BETWEEN HEAVEN AND EARTH? For example: 2 Kings 6: We need not fear coming to God because we have his Son and High Priest who has made a way for us. And look up the word “pray” in the King James version of the Bible. We can see this in the words of John: "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. I started my own blog inspired by your work and Gonz from http://www.facelikethesun.com. by Shawn Brasseaux. Maybe, again, and this is my disclaimer, I missed Mr Hamp’s grounding of his fire-talk in Christ. God is above the universe and beyond even what lies behind it. He emphasized that the veil dissolves during the liturgy of the Eucharist every single time Mass is offered. Some of the things you say here are interesting and creative. According to Scripture, and according to the English language in general, I do not believe “prayer” is restricted to God alone. It is the heaven referred to in the Bible verses below. Scripture teaches us to pray to angels. It is where birds and clouds are. That vail was torn from top to bottom at the death of Christ. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”. So it is with the saints in heaven. 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. 14 Onias said: ‘This is God’s prophet Jeremiah, who loves the Jewish people and offers many prayers for us and for Jerusalem, the holy city.’. In this video, I talk about the veil between heaven and earth and when it will be torn down. Basil I appreciated your insert concerning the veil as a protective barrier from God. Douglas Hamp is a graduate of Hebrew University of Jerusalem with an M.A. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. . I always am tuned into Deyo’s work, Marzullis, Tom Horn, Gonz, Chuck Missler and yourself. (Rev. The Intercession of the Saints in Scripture. How do the angels and saints hear the prayers of men on earth? With that in mind, it seems reasonable that the inhabitants of heaven can also see and hear what is happening on earth. Skellig michael ireland ben when and where is the veil thinnest the dinner table as a place of living wittily thickly textured thin thin places where heaven and earth Can Loved Ones Look Down On Me From HeavenYou Might Be Wondering What A Thin Place Is Carolina FamilyThe Veil Is Thin Tonight Iamsignificant Ca Love… Read More » (I paraphrase) 20 But Gehazi, the servant of Elisha the man of God, said, “Look, my master has spared Naaman this Syrian, while not receiving from his hands what he brought; but as the Lord lives, I will run after him and take something from him.” Really? We often think of heaven as some ethereal place far far away. There is not another human soul around for a mile in any direction. Elisha said to him, “Where did you go, Gehazi?” Passages like this seem to suggest that the veil between heaven and earth is very thin indeed. Based on this knowledge acquired from far-seeing and far-hearing, the inhabitants of heaven pray about such things. 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